Stealth in the Gundam World

[neogmkuma 0]

I have a question dear members of Advent Destiny.

 

Why is it that stealth technology isn't used in this universe (the CE timeline)?

I know that mobile suits are 15-20 meter tall humanoid mechanical suits and are easy to spot during the day but it could give an added advantage if they could only be spotted from visual range and not from tens of kilometers away.

[HHLkill3r 3]

umm... the Mirage Colloid system on Blitz and the Girty Lue is your answer to the stealth tech.... its sorta the only system that provides stealth in the entire CE. Advantage: stealth from radar as well as visual spotting but the disadvantage from my observations: it drains power a lot.

 

as for why they don't make more systems with stealth... i wouldn't have a clue...

[konigstiger 0]

well, first regarding about stealth technology of today, there are two ways of doing it. It is either design based or radar based. Design based uses the contour of your machine to able to disrupt radio wave frequency bouncing back to the radar. Though you will still be visible on radar but it'll be hard to anyone to distinguish you from bird

 

Radar based is something the US military that has still kept secret. How it is done is still unknown to the public. But it said that a component aboard the machine is capable of reducing the enemy's radar range, allowing the machine to pass through this gaps undetected.

 

But as they say, Stealth does not mean you're invisible. I think the use of stealth is much more applicable on smaller machines than mobile suits. But I do not know....does Mirage Colloids capable of not only being nearly invisible but also stealth capability? I remember the Blitz Gundam was able to do the same with it. But I highly doubt the technology...unless they put something extra on it to be able to have stealth capability. Nor does the Blitz or Girty Lue have design Based Radar stealth.

[Ryou Misaki 0]

There's also an issue with the giant mech being of it's size.

 

Being invisible isn't gonna stop the thundering footsteps or energy shooting out of your back thrusters if you're flying towards a base.

 

Space would provide a better place to use such stealth but Naturals aren't that skilled in such technology and they were lucky to make the Blitz as it was..sadly destroyed before anything similar/technology was exploited.

 

I think it's personally fair, even in the series it would suck to see nothing but space and hear anime chars talking to one another and invisible lasers hitting. It's more fair for people to see each other anyway.

 

Similar to the N-Jammers they placed in earth to stop Nuclear weapons. Stealth isn't really something that needs to be added upon giant mechs or else it would be a whole different war with invisible mechs and paranoid actions.

[darkphoenix 0]

Hey, don't make Naturals stupid - Coordinators don't have anything similar at all)) Mirage Coolid technologies were restricted by peace treaty after FBVW, that's why they weren't so much used in CE Universe)

[Valiant 96]

From my understanding, the Mirage Colloid is a cloaking system that is only able to hide heat signatures to a certain extent. If the MS's temperature is too high, you can still pick up the MS via thermal sensors.

[DragonDaimyo 3]

That's my understanding as well. That's why I love Mirage Colloid so much. It's so devastating if you know how to use it right, yet it can be so easily countered if you know the tricks to it.

 

darkphoenix: PLANT absolutely has Mirage Colloid tech available. Don't forget they were hiding GENESIS with it. And since Orb cooperated with the construction of the Blitz, I'd imagine they have it, too

[Aures Convicio 0]

Dosen't the miriod (SP) thecnology make your suit weaker, so hence you are in stealth mode it makes you more suceptible for a bullet or something random to hit you.  Remember the Archangel fired on Blitz when he was stealth and he switched before he got hit. 

 

with all said and done proable the risk and the expense is not worth the utility to incorporate it. 

[DragonDaimyo 3]

Not really. The thing is, Blitz had both Phase Shift armor (invulnerable to bullets and missiles) and Mirage Colloid, but you can't run both at once. It's one or the other. If you have Mirage Colloid, but not PS armor, you suffer no real disadvantage from having Colloid activated all the time.

[Aures Convicio 0]

you suffer no real disadvantage exept that with no Phase shift armor, random bullets can harm you.

[DragonDaimyo 3]

I'm saying that this holds if the mobile suit you have has no Phase Shift armor. Not to be confused with having Phase Shift armor, but just turning it off to run the Colloid. If you have no Phase Shift armor, you're going to be hurt by random bullets either with or without Mirage Colloid. Mirage Colloid just gives you the potential of avoiding a great deal of those bullets as you move out of the line of fire.

[kct 0]

Obviously, most of the mobile suits with Mirage Colloid are some sort of special operations mobile suits. They are not meant for front-line combat, instead, they are to be the 'ninja' of the team, to sneak onto enemies and deliver a blow without being seen.

 

Even in the original plans for the original GAT-X Gundams (according to the Perfect Grade Strike Gundam manuals, that is), Blitz is designed as a mobile suit for convert operations sort of stuff, as it will be the first to sneak upon the enemies before the rest arrives. It is NOT really designed for front-line combat (and it is fatal to do so, we know it).

 

If you were to equate Blitz to someone, it would be some kind of Sam Fisher or the bald Hitman (I don't know where to put Solid Snake though), whose friends are stealth, stealth, stealth. And lots and lots of sneaking.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Guest

[Kaizer 0]

Konig made a good point as to what stealth should be seen as with respect to large scale machinery.  Mobile suits are big, so its not like you can hide one under a trenchcoat (unless we are talking about the shooting cloak on the Jess Rabble's Out Frame ).  Stealth suits either have a unique design to refract radar waves, or use hereto unknown radar jamming technology (as well as RAM paint coatings, which are expensive, heavier than normal paint, but can absorb radar waves to a certain extent).

 

As well, Mirage Colloid is banned by many treaties in the CE universe, meaning that it is not widely used (and if it is, those using it make sure that no one lives to say anything about it).  As for the actual understanding of Mirage Colloid, I think its time everyone takes a seat as I put on my professor's cap. *randomly conjures up a professor's cap*

 

Mirage Colloid involves covering the suit in an experimental new group of particles (called colloid particles).  These particles have the interesting property to absorb and refract a variety of things such as light waves and radar waves (all of its properties are still unknown, as it is experimental after all).  by absorbing all light and radar waves that would touch the suit, this makes it so nothing is reflected back to either your eyes or your radar sensors; giving you nothing to analyze, thus you see nothing.  This doesn't mean that you can see through it though, so a discerning eye might still notice a mirage colloid using suit as it moves along certain terrains (if it passes past a mountain, you wouldn't be able to see the parts of the mountain behind the suit).

 

Mirage Colloid can't be used with Phase Shift Armor because they both employ a similar technology.  Phase Shift which uses electricity to cover the suit, and repel most anything that touches them (save for energy, such as a beam rifle's shot, or something that can simply over power the electricity, like the Raider's giant spiked ball).  This means that Colloid particles would be repelled by the Phase Shift, and thus dispersed from the suit, negating their effect.  As many people said, Mirage Colloid doesn't weaken defense, it only prevents the use of defensive equipment.  Also, like Valiant said, Mirage Colloid can't absorb heat, but I believe it does hamper the detection of it.  Still a unit using Mirage Colloid could be found by its heat signature if you have the ability to detect heat (not sure if standard MS have heat sensors or not, someone wanna clarify that for me?).

 

And for those that don't know, Colloid particles are used in more than just Mirage Colloid.  They are used to make those weird virus spreaders on the Proto Savior and Testament, the Geschemeidig Panzer beam reflectors on the Forbidden, and the Wings of Light on the Destiny (colloid particles are what gives the after image effect).  It's possible that the Stargazer's Voiture Lumiere uses Colloid particles, but it hasn't been denied or confirmed as of yet.

 

*takes off professor's cap*

 

And that's the lesson for today, remember to read chapters 8-9 in your textbooks before our next lesson 

[Shaftronics 0]

I think mass-produced mobile suits would have at least a thermal sensor. I mean, even for the current modern warfare, there's at least one person with thermal goggles, right?

[DragonDaimyo 3]

Given the formerly common nature of N-Jammers, I think thermal detection systems would be somewhat common.

 

Also, note that the Mirage Colloid particles are held in place by a magnetic field, for the sake of being thorough.

 

*Gives Kaizer an apple*

[darkphoenix 0]

Bravo, Kaiza-san! *I want Geschmeidig Panzer for myself *

[Ryo Kazunine 0]

Technically, wouldn't Mirage Colloid actually make the suit produce a larger heat signature? If the particles absorb all of the waves that they do, they would be heated up. It's really the same a rock in the desert heating up. It absorbs some of the rays, and that heats it up. It is the transfer of heat by Radiation. So the Mirage Colloid can easily be spotted by heat sensors. Which is why if you made a large thing equipped with Mirage Colloid (Genesis Girty Lue) you would, naturally, build a cooling system for the outer skin.

[Valiant 96]

Kaizer, you should file that in the Compendium

 

 

Ryo, I believe that is either a special property of the Colloid particles that reduces the heat signature or they could have a special cooling mechanism that comes with the Mirage Colloid system to reduce the heat produced.

[kct 0]

That, or the advances in cooling technology (we can imagine the amount of coolers required for the batteries in mobile suits for them to operate at peak power, and we are not onto the nuclear-powered ones yet) have helped to reduce the amount of heat generated, at least to a certain extent.

[Kaizer 0]

I'll definitely put this stuff up on the compendium soon enough (should probably try and get all the techs done this way.  Wikipedia itself is a good source for info, though not always indepth on it).  As for the cooling issues, remember that it absorbs and refracts the waves, so some of the waves are just scrambled or broken up; plus the amount of heat the waves produce would be small compared to the amount of heat its thrusters would generate (think mythbusters and the archimedes death ray .  It could make things hot, but not hot enough to burn.)