Gundams in Real Life?

[Valiant 96]

I'm surprised that this hasn't been brought up given that we are a Gundam site. What are your opinions with regards to the possibility of Gundam-like machines being built in the future? I would like to point out that by Gundam-like machines I refer to general humanoid mecha. For example, mechs from BattleTech would not fall under this category as while they are generally bipedal and have a torso, they lack arms and hands.

 

Feel free to state your opinion. There is no right or wrong answer. I'm just curious to see what everyone thinks. If you believe that this is a possibility, please state the year you estimate that would happen.

 

Lastly, I would state that we would be assuming that World War III does not occur and that we have enough energy resources to last us until the next millennium.

 

Personally, I feel that technological advancement is on the rise, and the pace of such development is picking up. There are robots that can mimic human movements and I strongly believe that the use of a mech for warfare or work such as construction and mining would be a definite possibility. Humans have a wonderful body and if we can imitate that and create features that would enhance the abilities of mechs in the jobs they are built for, it would certainly be for the better.

 

What do you think?

[Tsubasa 0]

This was brought up by one of my local anime forums. Every sci-fic story is VERY possible for it to happen. Or it took for them to happen is the direction of humankind.

 

In anycase, an arguement of Japan itself producing such large machines were rumoured. They debated to the course where a deduction of a bluff for children's program were made, where big robots come to play.

 

Well, some might say that Japan only used mini-sized robots and magnitized their size so that they looked giga realistic. Well, truth is, there ARE robots up to the real Gundam size. And there are even a few Gundams out there, inmobilized and unweaponed. A real gundam scenario will be possible if Japan manage to out talk the other nations into firepower purchase and mobility technology for this robots production. There are also scenarios where universities and colleges are into this self-research of robotics, where the government use the students for these kind of research.

 

Thus this conclusion, Gundams ARE possible. And they might be flying in the near future, you never know.

[winders 0]

I think Gundams are impractical; in every series they find some excuse to make them near invincible to ordinance. Which means that they are a big hulking target with pretty much tank armour; which can still be pierced given the right amount of firepower.

[Tsubasa 0]

But let's leave the god-modding possiblity aside. If costs are tightened down, its possible to own a Mobile Suit colony. Gundams are impossible, with phase shift armour letting you immune to bullets? But high mobility are one main goal they are supposed to achieve. I think America will be able to start such a military action first. Something like the test-series will be possible.

 

But beams swords and rifles seem alittle bit more unrealistic. Laser are much more possible, and I really do not think that large steel swords armed by futuristic Mobile Suits will be possible to achieve, as they tend to be impractical then bombs.

 

But if not one, but a group of MS were to be created. I think that they, more possibly adding in the help of a group of battleships and aircrafts, would defeat even Pearl Harbor.

[kct 0]

I don't know, I tend to look at the VF series from Macross in a more realistic light.

[neogmkuma 0]

Okay... First of all if we look at it in a biological point of view. Humans are relatively inefficient in moving. While humans are bipedal, the way we walk is like a series of controlled falls. Humans in essence are made to fall down. Our brains just sort it all out so we end up falling again and again thus... We can walk. If we compare our mode of locomotion to other animals in nature we can be sure that other animals are much more stable while moving.

 

Second of all... If we look at it in an evolutionary point of view. Humans have been around for just ten thousand years. We as a species have not been perfected by nature. In comparison to animals or better yet to insects, they have been here for millions of years. Nature has forced them to improve themselves. They have had millions of years to evolve while we as a species are the new kids on the block.

 

Basing a mobile weapon on a humanoid frame may be cool in anime but it would be highly impractical. Basing a robot on animals or insects would be better since animals are built stronger, faster and fiercer than humans. Insects on the other hand can generally lift about 10 or more times their body weight. Humans became the apex creatures because of our intellect and opposable thumbs and not our physiology. So basing a battle robot/ mobile suit on our physiology would be unwise since there are plenty of other creatures out there that are faster, stronger, better than us humans. Anyways... That's just my opinion on things

[liubei013 0]

@Valiant: A percentage of Battlemechs do have arms and hands. :X  (i.e. Atlas, Axman/Hatchetman, Hunchback, etc. etc.)

 

@topic: While it may be possible, it would probably be impractical as some have mentioned. 

 

I would find it more realistic to have mecha that are smaller than Gundams and can be used in more tactically flexible situations.  (Other than 'Me big target, no go down.')  Mechas such as those in Full Metal Panic, Front Mission, and Gasaraki would probably be more practical (and more cost-effective, probably) in the modern/near-future battlefield. 

 

@neog: Great point, even something relatively basic such as a quadruped mecha would provide significant stability over the bipedal setup.

[kct 0]

I think something from Front Mission or Armoured Core makes more sense here.

[Fuku with Nodachi 0]

I just recently came across a chapter of SRW where an antagonist explains that, "as long as there is war, technology advances". The desire to seek stronger weapons exists as long as there is somebody to fight. There are a lot of things we still don't know yet, so there is still a possibility someone might discover an efficient design for a blazing-fast, durable humanoid mech.

 

Front Mission and Armored Core are amazing games.

[Valiant 96]

liubei, I know but those are a very small percentage. I was just trying to compare the better imitation of the human body seen in Gundam than that in BattleTech.

[F.A.I.T.H 0]

 

I would find it more realistic to have mecha that are smaller than Gundams and can be used in more tactically flexible situations.  (Other than 'Me big target, no go down.')  Mechas such as those in Full Metal Panic, Front Mission, and Gasaraki would probably be more practical (and more cost-effective, probably) in the modern/near-future battlefield. 

 

Try something from Code Geass-The Knightmare Frames can't fly, have a reasonably limited source of power and can be damaged easily, whatever the generation.

 

It's not to say that having arms and legs are unrealistic, but considering models like Savior, Impulse, Abyss, Chaos, Gaia...All which need considerable movement while 'transforming' or merging parts together (Impulse). It's going to put quite a lot of stress on the machinery and gears if everything can happen so damn fast, which makes it hard to imagine it to be anything but unrealistic.

 

Let's not forget the beam weapons. Spamming beams should be certified as being 100% sci-fi. Overheating is only but one issue.

[winders 0]

Let's see here; beams are a possibility but I hardly doubt in the Gundam context. More like a concerntrated beam over than short bursts and even then it'll probably be impractical apart from its destructive power. (It theoretically takes up alot of power)

[Wilhelm 0]

I could imagine seeing the battletech, and Metal Gear like machines fighting in future battlefields. Nothing says hello like a Metal Gear Rex firing its rail gun at you. 

[kct 0]

Remember, even Zakus and the like start with kinetic weapons first.

[Mal Fain 0]

Personally, I feel that technological advancement is on the rise, and the pace of such development is picking up. There are robots that can mimic human movements and I strongly believe that the use of a mech for warfare or work such as construction and mining would be a definite possibility. Humans have a wonderful body and if we can imitate that and create features that would enhance the abilities of mechs in the jobs they are built for, it would certainly be for the better.

 

What do you think?

Firstly, generally speaking, the level of technology usually rises quite swiftly in times of war as the different factions are competing with one another to outperform them in the weapons and armor category and then onto detection, thus any humanoid mecha would probably be unveiled for the first time on the battlefield much like the tank and would be prone to the same sort of problems. Sucking basically.

 

Secondly, to be honest I think that humanoid mecha are less likely to be crafted than mecha of a quadruped nature due to less problems with balance or, even more likely, on tracks like modern day tanks as they're able to perform on more terrain types. With rotating weapon slots the chances of arms being used are also less due to the fact that it would be harder to create fully functioning arms than it would be to create a swiveling weapons platform.

 

That being said, the cybernetics research at university level is astounding. One of my friends has applied for a place in a cybernetics course where students are given the chance to have a microchip implanted under the skin of the arm which controls, remotely, a bionic arm. This would suggest, at least to my mind, the ability to create a purely bionic exoskeleton which you could control remotely. I think the general problem with them though is the fact that the human body is much more reliable and can adapt to situations more easily.

[liubei013 0]

liubei, I know but those are a very small percentage. I was just trying to compare the better imitation of the human body seen in Gundam than that in BattleTech.

 

Yeah, I know.  I just had to point out what I did before since it isn't absolute.

 

@Mal: Interesting points you made regarding 'arms.'  I would consider that mechanical arms on a larger scale would most likely be developed for construction usage.  Such arms will allow for precision and delicate work for a variety of applications, rather than seeing the use of mecha 'arms' in a combat before that, iono.

 

(Well, it seems to make sense since we already employ robotic arms for smaller machinery, such as deep-sea submersibles, bomb disposal, and space construction.)

[Asahi 0]

Heated topic huh? 

But don't mind me ppls, i'm just throwing my two cents here

I'm quite tired of over the horizon warfare. Our modern warfare is geared towards this. In a sense, this is an innovation is it not? (That is, push button, missile fires, hit enemy 500km away) To make 18m mobile suits possible, this sort of OtH (Over the Horizon) technology needs to be nullified/countered effectively. I don't know if you can disrupt/intercept an ICBM easily these days In the future, god knows if this OtH crap will still be around.

Anyway, about MS themselves. Disregarding the fantastic, incredible innovations brought about by Seed (PS, Mirage Colloid, beam boomerangs etc.) MS are quite possible, albeit in a few decades (or maybe several centuries :S) Ok sure big targets, but what are the shields for eh? MS can beat tanks, but if tanks swarm an MS, then its over (Then again, MS should swarm back at them tanks ). Movement? Well, NeoGM's got a good point about humans walking. 4 legged? hey sure why not? quadrupedal mecha ftw btw, would any of you think that making bipedal MS is cheaper than quadrupedal MS? Just a thought.

But why would we need MS? My thought : Battlefield dominance. So long as you keep those WMDs away, MS are almost unbeatable. Key word. Almost

Btw, don't mind my bad grammar and stuff, i'm just trying to get my point across as fast as possible

[F.A.I.T.H 0]

Ok sure big targets, but what are the shields for eh? MS can beat tanks, but if tanks swarm an MS, then its over (Then again, MS should swarm back at them tanks ). Movement? Well, NeoGM's got a good point about humans walking. 4 legged? hey sure why not? quadrupedal mecha ftw btw, would any of you think that making bipedal MS is cheaper than quadrupedal MS? Just a thought.

 

And a good thought it is. It really depends, but if there were to be mobile suits readily built in the future, I'm pretty sure they can withstand a couple more hits than tanks can. I'm no expert on gadgets, but pitting wheels against leg movement...Currently I don't see many ways of how the latter can make it across a battlefield faster than a set of wheels. Perhaps the BaCUES would be plausible to counter an argument like this, but for humanoid mobile suits?

But why would we need MS? My thought : Battlefield dominance. So long as you keep those WMDs away, MS are almost unbeatable. Key word. Almost

 

I was thinking that perhaps they would be more durable to attacks than tanks and perhaps planes. Their usefulness would be marked mainly as the backbone of an army rather than the military strength a country has, because if you pit a dozen stealth bombers and perhaps twenty ICBMs against battalions of mobile suits, I'm more inclined to think that tactics in times like these and after should be sufficient in dealing with overwhelming odds in terms of numbers.

[Valiant 96]

I'm no expert on gadgets, but pitting wheels against leg movement...Currently I don't see many ways of how the latter can make it across a battlefield faster than a set of wheels. Perhaps the BaCUES would be plausible to counter an argument like this, but for humanoid mobile suits?

 

How about skates

 

Jokes aside, it's good to see this develop into a heated but interesting discussion. Many good points were raised. Keep at it. 

 

As for all the talk about having beam weaponry and other fancy technology seen in the series, I feel that some of them are plausible. But this can be debated upon. Perhaps we can start off another thread for that

 

However, my purpose of this thread is more directed at the discussion of having such humanoid mechs as weapons, for construction work, mining or any other possible jobs.

[Valiant 96]

I have an argument to make. Mecha can move on any type of terrain with their legs, unlike vehicles with wheels or caterpillar tracks, which can be hindered by steep slopes and rocky terrain. A truly humanoid mecha can climb sheer surfaces and negotiate rocks with ease.

 

The versatility of mecha in different combat situations is another argument in its favor. It combines the flexibility of a foot soldier with the toughness and firepower of an armoured tank. In close combat, it can also execute melee moves.

[liubei013 0]

@Construction etc.: As I mentioned before, we have already seen the use of robotic arms in a variety of non-military uses.  So it's not far fetched to see humanoid arms in such fields in the future.

 

@Mobility: I brought up Gasaraki as an example in my initial post to address this exact point.  Assuming that issues regarding balance can be solved, a mecha platform would have superior mobility in a variety of terrains.  Things such as scaling up buildings/cliffs or evasive maneuvers such as side-stepping or spinning would expand upon such tactical superiority.

 

However, wheels/tracks still tend to be superior in terms of speed, especially over open (and generally flat) terrain.  So either the mechas would need to be transported, or they would need additional gear (like the mentioned 'skates') to match with the speed of the conventional armor units. 

[neogmkuma 0]

The versatility of mecha in different combat situations is another argument in its favor. It combines the flexibility of a foot soldier with the toughness and firepower of an armoured tank. In close combat, it can also execute melee moves.

 

I agree that legged MSes can be more versatile than a tank. But as for melee combat... I think not... Punching and kicking are out of the question because it can wreak havoc to a suit's mechanical interior. Remember a human hand/ body is made up of flexible and soft stuff like fat, skin, muscle. So even if we hit or get hit by something our body just dissipates the impact. As for MSes, a metal hand would suffer from dents, misalignment of delicate parts, etc. Too many things might go wrong if a MS would get into a fist fight. As for close range melee weapons such as knives or swords are concerned... Maybe it can be effective if MSes can mimic the fluidity of human movement. As for whips like that of the Gouf's... I don't think so... A whip is an impractical weapon to wield in a battle field. It's unwieldy in a CQB combat. I believe that CIWS class of weapons might be a better way of close range fighting.

 

MS for me would be better of as mobile weapon platforms. In the battletech universe a good example of this mobile weapons platform would be the Mad Cat or the Catapult. Another example would be Metal Gear Rex. A walking missile launchpad with multi- ranged weapons would be a formidable opponent.

 

As for arms... In instances where accuracy and precision are of utmost importance. Nothing can beat opposable thumbs and fingers. But for warfare maybe the military should look into the weapon arms of Armored Core. Well... Just my opinion...

[Asahi 0]

Punching and kicking are out of the question because it can wreak havoc to a suit's mechanical interior.

 

MS for me would be better of as mobile weapon platforms. In the battletech universe a good example of this mobile weapons platform would be the Mad Cat or the Catapult. Another example would be Metal Gear Rex. A walking missile launchpad with multi- ranged weapons would be a formidable opponent.

You bring very good points to this dicussion Neogm, cookies for you

 

1st point :Melee combat

Well, yes thats right. It also depends what they're hitting. If its a tank, you wish , just shoot it. If its enemy ms, melee may be an option (if you're desparate ) But taking example of modern infantry warfare, you never see soldiers rushing at each other with bayonets/butts of their rifles ('cept Halo lol ) Mecha already have ranged weapons, so melee is only a last ditch effort (think Mechs ramming each other, when they run out of ammo LMAO )

 

2nd point : Mobile Weapon platforms

IMO Mad Cat and Rex, yes they are MWPs. Although i'm going to ignore you said Catapult...that ugly beast is......sure they're powerful, but seriously, you can Loki its ass off . Aaanyway, taking the example of the iconic Mad Cat, you can have long range and medium to short range weapons on an MS, but i'd like to point out, MS weapon loadouts would be extremely flexible, considering their hands They'd be multirole

 

However, wheels/tracks still tend to be superior in terms of speed, especially over open (and generally flat) terrain.  So either the mechas would need to be transported, or they would need additional gear (like the mentioned 'skates') to match with the speed of the conventional armor units.

 

Well, Liubei, I wouldn't particularly use MS for extended engagements. Travelling between fronts/missions is costly to the MS (think wear and tear), so unless the skates are cheap, then economically, we need those Gaws/Land Battleships

[liubei013 0]

@Asahi:  Indeed.

(Hell, modern armies use seaborne vessels or railways to transport heavy vehicles, such as tanks.)

(And by the way, it's called a Timber Wolf, not a Mad Cat! D: )

 

And the other issue you addressed about MSes in relatively brief engagements I suppose I can continue our discussion here with.  One issue as to why potential MSes shouldn't participate in prolonged engagements would be their powerplants.

 

If we assume that an MS needs to be relatively fast, maneuverable, and well-armed, it would also require a sufficient source of power to allow the said MS to perform well.  Some possible sources could be nuclear reactors (such as those mechs in Battletech and U.C. Gundam) though the potential issues are kinda obvious.  There are also high-end batteries (GSEED, Gasaraki, etc.) though it has its own set of disadvantages.  Of course, there's the potential for other alternative sources of power.  (i.e. FMP: Palladium/Cold Fusion reactors)

 

Regardless, any MS would probably need some power source that would have a high capacity in order to have a wide range of active use and high output in order to allow the MS to move and fire weapons.