Jump to content

MS-05 Zaku I page on the "mechabay" is incorrect


Recommended Posts

Hello! So I'm a big gundam fan, and I've been doing lots of reading about the mechanics of the gundam universe. I've mostly been reading the gundam century renewal series, and the early MS encyclopedia books. (though only the 1991 first release, and i'm trying to piece together the 2002 re-release the best i can without actually owning it yet) 

And I'm really curious as to how the zaku-I page on your guys' wiki, the "mechabay" ended up the way it did? I initially wanted to note all the errors individually, but after countless times re-writing this post, I've found that to be a nearly impossible task, as almost all the specific mechanical information is flat-out wrong. 

I'm wondering if this was written as to fit with someone's fan-fiction universe? Or is this info supposed to support some extended universe? I'm baffled as to why there isn't any information stating this on the page, as I found this page fairly easily. And initially, I had hoped to find some new information about in-universe technology. 

As stated before, I won't get into every single inconsistency, but some really outrageous ones are as follows: 

Completely made up production numbers? Never is it stated how many zaku of any type were created. The zaku-I, being the first mass production type, could range from tens to tens of thousands. I have no idea why someone arbitrarily decided to put production numbers on them? With how large scale zaku production was during and before the war, it would be almost impossible, even in universe to know the exact number. Its a stated fact that several THOUSAND zakus were stationed at A Baoa Qu at the end of the war. And that was after the zaku had been phased out. and this was a single battle of many during the war.... 

COOLING PIPES?? The fluid-pulse system is referenced SO OFTEN in gundam cannon, both in production and through source material, it absolutely BLOWS MY MIND that anyone would think the piping on a zaku was for... COOLING!? Like, are you implying that the heat from the reactor is......... pumped out a tube into its foot???? My bones hurt from thinking about this. OW. also, HEAT IN GENERAL??? literally the ENTIRE concept of the minovsky fusion reactor, is that it achieves the incredible task of housing the plasma created by the fusion reaction, incased in an I-field. Thus, allowing the reactor to be built of conventional, non-super conductive materials. So the heat would be 100% entirely contained in the reactor, which is the entire purpose. So to think that heating was ever a problem with the zaku is simply absurd. Its also stated, quite clearly, MANY many, many times throughout gundam source books that the reason why mobile suits explode into a massive fireball when the reactor is hit, is because the I-field is destabilized inside the reactor. this releases the contained heat of nuclear fusion directly into the reactor walls. Which is shown many times throughout gundam. The very first episode of gundam that ever aired had amuro striking the reactor of a zaku, and the heat released from the reactor is so devistating it nearly destroys his entire space colony. 

I'm actually quite curious where this idea of "heating tubes" even came from??? Is this an idea from some other work of fiction? Was this just someone implying the tubing was heating because they couldn't think of a more rational explanation??? I mean, this isn't just extended lore either. They talk about all these concepts in detail in the gundam origin manga, and even show it in the anime adaptation. Here, I'll include a screenshot. 

So, for my next point. The fluid pulse system. I'll just quote the gundam wiki (a very easy source to find basic gundam information, for future reference) 

"The joints of Zeon mobile suits are driven by a fluid pulse system, which used a pulse converter to turn the energy produced by the atomic reactor into pulses of pressure within a fluid. Thousands of fluid pipes, finer than human hairs, transmitted these pulses at supersonic speed to the rotary cylinders which drove the joints. This system yielded a higher operating speed than hydraulics, and lower weight and greater structural simplicity than electric motors. The exposed power cables seen on some Zeon mobile suits, such as the Zaku II series, are part of the fluid pulse system, connecting the reactor to each joint." 

This is obviously a weird translation (atomic?) But you get the point. Again, I cannot stress enough how.... Easy this information is to find. 

I'll stop here, but literally the ENTIRE article you guys have written up is nearly 100% phooey that goes completely against well-established gundam canon. 

Also, If someone wants more information, I'd be happy to elaborate on every single inconsistency listed on the page. At this point I don't want to go off the deep end, since im like 50% sure this page is written against gundam canon for the reasons of roleplay. 

And thats fine! There is nothing wrong with changing the established lore of a universe, I'm actually a fanfiction writter myself! All that I ask is that you please include some form of message or disclaimer on your page. Like, write something at the top that says "THIS IS FOR ROLEPLAY AND DOES NOT REFLECT THE ESTABLISHED GUNDAM CANON" I'd hate for someone to be interested in gundam, find this page, and believe the info written there as being canonical for gundam. 

Anyways, sorry if this came off as rude! I'm just (maybe a little too?) passionate about gundam 
 

Fusionreactor.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi @wikikomoto, welcome to Advent Destiny! Thanks for your feedback and sharing. MechaBay isn't a wiki. It's a database that we're trying to build for the mecha community. To give you some background, let me tell you a bit about how the site came about. We were running the Gundam Wiki but there were many problems with the site due to the mass migration of articles from Wikipedia to save the content from Wikipedia's purging of non-encyclopaedic content, which included most Gundam articles. The lack of consistency in the articles (the Manual of Style wasn't followed strictly), and the ads by Fandom (formerly Wikia) led to us creating MechaBay to build something from scratch.

With many universes within the Gundam franchise, it is hard to keep everything organised. You might notice how certain mecha from gunpla-based series are referenced as variants or predecessors/successors of actual mecha in other universes. IMHO gunpla mecha should be kept separate since they are more of created through kit-bashing. Then there's the issue with UC inconsistencies, and also differences between anime, manga, novels, and games that make it hard to nail down what is cannon.

I admit that the Zaku I article is a little controversial because I wrote it as an experiment to try to make sense of the different inconsistencies, especially with the different lore from Origin. I believe the fluid pulse system was introduced by Origin as well. You can't even find it on The Zaku II page on the Gundam Wiki and I believe it is being or will be retconned into the existing articles there, I'm not sure because I'm not involved in the process there now.

As for the cooling fluid system, you can read about the inspiration from on the Gundam Wiki on the Zaku I Early Type page. I'm glad you managed to catch on to that.

The long term goal is to have the articles with proper citation to the official sources and it'll be great if you could share the resources and information that you have to help us improve MechaBay. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/04/2021 at 01:11, Valiant said:

Hi @wikikomoto, welcome to Advent Destiny! Thanks for your feedback and sharing. MechaBay isn't a wiki. It's a database that we're trying to build for the mecha community. To give you some background, let me tell you a bit about how the site came about. We were running the Gundam Wiki but there were many problems with the site due to the mass migration of articles from Wikipedia to save the content from Wikipedia's purging of non-encyclopaedic content, which included most Gundam articles. The lack of consistency in the articles (the Manual of Style wasn't followed strictly), and the ads by Fandom (formerly Wikia) led to us creating MechaBay to build something from scratch.

With many universes within the Gundam franchise, it is hard to keep everything organised. You might notice how certain mecha from gunpla-based series are referenced as variants or predecessors/successors of actual mecha in other universes. IMHO gunpla mecha should be kept separate since they are more of created through kit-bashing. Then there's the issue with UC inconsistencies, and also differences between anime, manga, novels, and games that make it hard to nail down what is cannon.

I admit that the Zaku I article is a little controversial because I wrote it as an experiment to try to make sense of the different inconsistencies, especially with the different lore from Origin. I believe the fluid pulse system was introduced by Origin as well. You can't even find it on The Zaku II page on the Gundam Wiki and I believe it is being or will be retconned into the existing articles there, I'm not sure because I'm not involved in the process there now.

As for the cooling fluid system, you can read about the inspiration from on the Gundam Wiki on the Zaku I Early Type page. I'm glad you managed to catch on to that.

The long term goal is to have the articles with proper citation to the official sources and it'll be great if you could share the resources and information that you have to help us improve MechaBay. 

Hello. thanks for the reply! the gundam wiki is terrible, i agree. its why i went out of my way to buy the source books and translate manuals. (why does it say the megella top cannon is RECOILESS??) but the fluid pulse system is not new! I believe the first time its referenced is in zeta, but its much more elaborated on in the books mentioned before, another great reference is manuals! the fluid pulse system is first mentioned in the 1995 zaku-ii master grade kit. and more thoroughly talked about in the 1999 perfect grade tech manual that comes with it. I believe the first time the AMBAC system is mentioned is in this same manual from 1999. It was a joy to seem them retroactively mention it in gundam origin though! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, wikikomoto said:

Hello. thanks for the reply! the gundam wiki is terrible, i agree. its why i went out of my way to buy the source books and translate manuals. (why does it say the megella top cannon is RECOILESS??) but the fluid pulse system is not new! I believe the first time its referenced is in zeta, but its much more elaborated on in the books mentioned before, another great reference is manuals! the fluid pulse system is first mentioned in the 1995 zaku-ii master grade kit. and more thoroughly talked about in the 1999 perfect grade tech manual that comes with it. I believe the first time the AMBAC system is mentioned is in this same manual from 1999. It was a joy to seem them retroactively mention it in gundam origin though! 

Would be great if you could share the source materials. I got some but mainly to look at the graphics. I can't read Japanese so translations of the text would be great too. I haven't looked at scanlations but they'll definitely be reliable sources we can cite.

The Gundam Wiki is terrible but kudos to those who moved the content before they got wiped off Wikipedia, but it created a mess that is really hard to deal with while new series kept on heaping stuff on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Valiant said:

Would be great if you could share the source materials. I got some but mainly to look at the graphics. I can't read Japanese so translations of the text would be great too. I haven't looked at scanlations but they'll definitely be reliable sources we can cite.

The Gundam Wiki is terrible but kudos to those who moved the content before they got wiped off Wikipedia, but it created a mess that is really hard to deal with while new series kept on heaping stuff on.

Hello again!! a GREAT resource for manuals is dalong(dot)net. unfortunately i don't speak the language either. i speak mandarin and my roommate speaks japanese. i'll have her translate a few resources related to the overall zaku program! the information released about the minovsky fusion reactor is really fascinating and i'd love to share it with everyone!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
On 28/04/2021 at 16:47, wikikomoto said:

Hello again!! a GREAT resource for manuals is dalong(dot)net. unfortunately i don't speak the language either. i speak mandarin and my roommate speaks japanese. i'll have her translate a few resources related to the overall zaku program! the information released about the minovsky fusion reactor is really fascinating and i'd love to share it with everyone!

Ah, yes Dalong has the manuals. The Gundam Encyclopaedia and Mechanic Files would be great resources when translated. Also, do join us on Discord.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...