Hair color debate

[Vanguardian 0]

I understand that the rules of the Admin. are final; however, I was wondering if the "no unnatural" hair color rule can be put up for discussion.  It's pretty audacious for a newcomer like myself to ask such a thing, but seeing as how it relates to my creating a character now I think it's better I bring this up. 

 

The rules state that we should be realistic in choosing our character's hair color; but I don't find it unreasonable for characters to have blue, green, or pink hair because in the Gundam SEED universe there are people with such unnatural colors.  Also, as compared to other anime shows, there is a sort of implied reasoning that genetic manipulation can give Coordinators green hair and that it is hereditary in further generations, as seen by Nicol having green hair like his mother. 

 

With this being the case I propose that only naturals should be restricted in natural hair color and not Coordinators (maybe including even those born of a Natural and a Coordinator).  This makes sense since we don't really see naturals with such colors except for the biological CPU's.

 

Another point I'd like to make in support of such an amendment is that hair color can say something about your character's personality, as well as the fact of whether they dye their hair or not.  Let's use Lacus as an example.  Her pink hair reflects her positive and caring personality, but at the same time it's odd to see her as the type to dye her hair.

[Valiant 96]

Why is it odd that they dye their hair? That's just your personal opinion.

 

I believe you are not very well versed in terms of biology. The types of hair colour that we have is restricted by the way our body works. You can change the genetic make up but the same types of hair colour remains. You only have a limited palette of hair colours to choose from.

[kct 0]

Erm, I do have to agree with him. Makes sense for Naturals, but the restriction on Coordinators don't make much sense to me.

 

It is like, if they can exist the last time why not now?

[Valiant 96]

If our genes did allow it then why aren't there people with other hair colours other than that we see around us, ie blonde,red, brunette, grey, black, brown?

 

Here's something from Wikipedia:

 

One gene, which is a brown/blonde pair, has a dominant brown allele and a recessive blonde allele. If a person carries the brown allele, they will have brown hair; otherwise, they will be blonde. This also explains why two brown-haired parents can produce a blonde-haired child. The other gene pair is a not-red/red pair, where the "not-red" allele (which suppresses production of phaeomelanin) is dominant and the allele for red hair is recessive. Since the two gene pairs both govern hair color, a person with two copies of the red-haired allele will have red hair, but it will be either auburn or bright reddish orange depending upon whether the first gene pair gives a brown or blonde hair color respectively. The recessive genes for both brown/blonde and red hair are found nearly exclusively in populations of Whites and Caucasians.There is also a black gene, usually related to darker skinned humans.

[kct 0]

That is for normal humans, I believe science has progressed far by that time .>" title="" /> .

[Rad 0]

I think I can summarize Valiant's responses as "No, it's not up for discussion."

[Valiant 96]

That is for normal humans, I believe science has progressed far by that time .>" title="" /> .

 

Progress in what sense? That they can synthesise new genes? From what I know they only manipulate the genes available for Coordinators.

[Ray Katsuki 0]

I think what Van means is that its not unusual in most anime settings for characters to have an unusual hair colour. 

 

However I believe that at AD we are going for a grittier more realistic approach to characters, mecha and general attitude.  To hopefully make it a more serious roleplay which is helped by not having characters running around with weird and unusual natural hair colour, as this would alter the tone.  But all anyone who wants an odd haircolour has to do is dye their hair, they just cant have it as their natural colour.

 

But the main thing is that its Valiants call, its his site. So what he says goes. Alea jacta est.

[Kaizer 0]

People must remember that the gundam series has always tried to maintain at least some sense of realism, which is why it never faired that well when it first came out.  Eventually people liked the realistic take on giant mecha battling, and gundam became what it is today.  At Advent Destiny, we strive to maintain that ideal in homage to the gundam series, as well as to prevent people from going over the top with their characters.

 

However, this does not mean that we want to restrict you from having a unique character, there are plenty of good natural hair colors out there, and dyeing your hair is not that big a deal either; not to mention it may even improve your character's personality if you are imaginative enough.  Along with hair color, eye colors and the like are also up to debate, and colored contacts can be a fashionable answer to that as well.  Or you can go along other routes and find more unique answers to your problems (I believe we have discussed the idea of Albinism being the cause for a unique hair and eye color, and I'm sure there are other ways you can accomplish it too).

 

Like I said, we do not want to restrict you from having a unique character, we just want said character to be unique, yet realistic at the same time  .  That being said, I believe this topic isn't truly up for discussion, and we should probably stop before we go off topic  .

[Vanguardian 0]

True, I am not well versed in biology, Valiant, but even I know that such colors as blue are genetically impossible for natural hair color.  The thing is this is science fiction we're dealing with, and in science fiction things are often explained in a pseudo-scientific way to make them seem realistic, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's actually possible.  I also admire the realism in the Gundam series in terms of their dealing with the consequences of war, political ambitions, and endurance of the human spirit; but to take something out that exists in the SEED universe already is unnecessary in my opinion.  Of all the Gundam series, G Gundam is the most unrealistic and if you were to take out the unrealistic elements, you would completely change the story.  This, of course, is an extreme case as opposed to taking out natural hair color options.  I just don't like unnecessary tampering that messes with the basic elements that make the SEED universe what it is.

[Jayden Cross 0]

Honestly I don't really see the reason for a debate. The way I see it, this is a fantasy based world, which is why we have genetically enhanced humans running around in Gigantic Weapons called mobile suits and living in outer space. Hair color is something that is relatively simple and I think a "different" hair style and color would add to the character's own uniqueness. I mean just how "realistic" is the Gundam universe...

 

I think he should be able to make his character's hair color whichever color he wants it to be so it diversifies his character from anyone else’s.

 

[kind of off topic but...] Shouldn't there be scientific advancement. It's been years since the last war and just as time progresses so should technology. I mean technological advancement is "highly realistic". In fact, if there is no technological advancement since then, then that is unrealistic...very unrealistic.

[kct 0]

Realism != anime

 

Realism != Gundam worlds.

 

BUT we have to put a bit more of realism here, because personally I'm sick of seeing noobs trying to look like Lacus .>" title="" /> . By putting this limit we hope we can stop seeing people trying to look like Lacus and what-not.

 

And no, not having access to all colours does not mean a bad thing, example:

 

<---

 

.>" title="" />

Edited November 22, 2006 by Guest

[Rad 0]

I just don't like unnecessary tampering that messes with the basic elements that make the SEED universe what it is.

 

Your personal preference is noted, but note also that the rest of us don't mind going by Valiant's rule. Otherwise, this discussion would have been raging long ago. The fact that it didn't should tell you something, mainly that when the rules and personal preference conflict, rules always take precedence.

 

With all due respect, if you feel you cannot create the character you have in mind without having this particular rule changed, then I advise you to consider another character completely.

[kct 0]

I do. But you all know I don't feel like spawning 10 characters now .>" title="" /> .

 

Seriously what is it with all this thing about realism, trying to be real? Bleh.

[Valiant 96]

I do. But you all know I don't feel like spawning 10 characters now .>" title="" /> .

 

Seriously what is it with all this thing about realism, trying to be real? Bleh.

 

I made it clear from the start that we are a literate role playing site and we strive to maintain realism. If you do not take realism into account, why not throw in some magic mumbojumbo etc just for the fun?

 

Honestly I don't really see the reason for a debate. The way I see it, this is a fantasy based world, which is why we have genetically enhanced humans running around in Gigantic Weapons called mobile suits and living in outer space. Hair color is something that is relatively simple and I think a "different" hair style and color would add to the character's own uniqueness. I mean just how "realistic" is the Gundam universe...

 

I think he should be able to make his character's hair color whichever color he wants it to be so it diversifies his character from anyone else’s.

 

[kind of off topic but...] Shouldn't there be scientific advancement. It's been years since the last war and just as time progresses so should technology. I mean technological advancement is "highly realistic". In fact, if there is no technological advancement since then, then that is unrealistic...very unrealistic.

 

 

If you speak of technological advancement such as actually building mobile weapons, I would say it isn't too far a stretch from being realistic. It is a machine and with sufficient funding and research it is possible to come up with one based on the current models of robots that we already have.

 

Being able to manipulate genes is a great form of technological advancement. But you can only do that much with technology when it comes to biology. You can only work with what you have and not what you don't. There are only certain genes coding for hair pigmentation and you can't make more. You can only manipulate what you have.

 

I still don't see why it is so hard to simply use hair dye? Heck, we can even have an advanced hair dye that does not damage but actually nutures and enhances the hair quality, thus making more people willing to dye their hair...

 

If you are interested to suggest technological advances, once we open the item/technology suggestion to members you can do so. However, I hope that you understand that we intentionally set the scenario so far after the war to distant ourselves from the original series. We want Advent Destiny to be unique but yet based on the Gundam Seed world.

[Black_Magic 0]

If we strove for absolute realism...

 

-We would have to remove beam sabers.

-We would have to remove Phase Shift.

-Instead of people magically floating around inside battleships, we'd need to strap propellants to them.

 

And that's just off the top of my head.

 

Hell, we'd have to remove Mobile Suits. The cool-yet-totally-unbalanced way those things are built, Ceramic Composite or no Ceramic Composite, they'd fall down before even taking a single step. Even more so in Gundam SEED, where the producers couldn't be bothered to scientifically justify anything with another version of the MInovsky Particle Theory.

 

I say let Coordinators have whatever hair colour. The show gives hereditary proof of altered hair colour (I mean, unless Nicol copied his mom and dyed his hair), and compared to the other glaring violations of science, this one is quite minor.

 

But in the end it's the admin's decision, and it won't drastically affect my character in any way really.

[Valiant 96]

Those are things that make Gundam what it is. Altered hair colour isn't one of them.

 

Like I said so many times before, I can't see why people just can't use hair dye...

[Vanguardian 0]

Oh, just for the record, I've said all that I wanted to already.  If you want to lock this that's fine with me, or if anyone wants to add their last minute comments it's fine as well.  Even if nothing was going to change, I feel it's good to get everyone's opinion on things.

[F.A.I.T.H 0]

If it's just an opinion...

 

I understand the need to keep things closer to reality and further from the SEED universe as a whole to make things more refreshing. I would think that realism in this case is pertaining to how the character looks like.

 

As for hair color...In my opinion, I thought having unusual hair colors would be fine, but nothing over the top. Restrictions off of Coordinators, simply because of what they are: genetically modified people. It doesn't have to take blatant references from the SEED universe itself, but the idea in itself that Coordinators are genetically modified, meaning anything, from the eye color to how he/she develops physically can be changed in some way.

 

That being said, if there's a big fat 'NO' there, then I'll just shut up after this.

[Rad 0]

That would be true to a certain extent, but as Valiant said, some hair and eyes colors just aren't part of a normal human's DNA pool. So, from a physiological standpoint, a person that has 'naturally' occurring pink or green hair, and orange or purple eyes, means that a person is no longer a homo sapien.

[F.A.I.T.H 0]

Hmm...thus the differentiation between Naturals and Coordinators?

 

I've no intention of being rebellious on this, but if it's the genes, wouldn't DNA be altered in some way as well? I'm not very well informed on this, so it's all up to those who are to decide.

[Rad 0]

I don't think Valiant's going to be budging from his rule, but I love the scholarly debate in any case.

 

Hmm...thus the differentiation between Naturals and Coordinators?

 

But that would mean Blue Cosmos and Rau Le Creuset were right after all, and whoever said "We are all human beings," (Lacus, I think) would be wrong! Coordinators as another species; there's an interesting thought.

[Valiant 96]

Okay, name me a mammal with blue or green fur...

[F.A.I.T.H 0]

*Off-topic* I rather like Rau le Creuset's logic. In fact, I could almost agree with him, had he not been regarded as insane by normal standards. Lacus Clyne's viewpoints are that of an idealist in the real world. Everyone is separated by something, even if we are all humans in the end. It just takes some factor for our unity and harmony amongst people with differences, that's all. *End off-topic*

 

Valiant, it isn't the matter of mammals having blue or green fur. I was simply talking about the meddling of genes, DNA and whatnot of an apparent homo sapien (As Rad had so aptly put ) It's not 'natural' in the sense that it's an unoriginal color, but it's 'natural' if, say, a Coordinator was born with it. At least, it's natural for the Coordinators, considering that gene-altering would be what made them, and thus make it seem common. (Yeah, I'm being presumptious, but what the hell.)

 

Now that I think about it, it's quite the paradox, isn't it?

[Valiant 96]

My point is, why don't you see one in real life?

 

They have glow in the dark orchid. How do they do it? They take the gene from a firefly and put it into an orchid. Same goes for the glow in the dark mice.

 

You need to understand how genetic modification works.