Re: Suggestions

[Erus 0]

I've written objections and/or suggestions to each of several things, I put the material I'm objecting to in quites.

The Earth Alliance is have less advanced technology compared to the PLANT and Orb Union but their numerical superiority offsets the disadvantage. With territories extending to most of the Earth, the faction is able to call upon a large army to fight for it. The faction believes in exterminating Coordinators to create a true and blue world where the "superior" beings do not exist. The OMNI Enforcer is the military of the Alliance.

Problems:

1.) OK, first off, the Earth Alliance is a Moderate Faction (more so than ZAFT/PLANT actually, which had 5-6 extremists on the council during both wars).  OMNI is simply its military arm. The EA is no more racist, and no more pines for the extermination of all coordinators, than PLANT does for Naturals... hmm strange I don't see any similar comments in PLANT for this.

2.) Your obviously mixing up the EA and Blue Cosmos. Blue Cosmos took control of the EA a couple of times and has a lot support, but is not the EA. In fact, if you'll recall, the vast majority of the EA refused to follow LOGOS once they found out about it.

 

PLANT has a most advanced technology amongst the three main factions. Although their numbers are considerably lesser than the Earth Alliance, they build powerful war machines which are piloted by Coordinators, who are genetically engineered to be stronger than Naturals in many ways. They fight to defend themselves from the aggressive Earth Alliance, to defend their right to live. PLANT is the abbreviation for two different things. PLANT refers to the government of the twelve PLANT cities. It also refers to the hourglass-shaped space colony, the Productive Location Ally on Nexus Technology (PLANT). ZAFT is the military of PLANT.

Problems:

1.) OK, first off, PLANT and ZAFT are not an innocent faction that only defends itself. Their goals extend far beyond "Their right to live". The proof: ZAFT/PLANT started the Second Bloody Valentine War. And no, I'm not talking just about the extremists, they sent their brightest, newest, warship into EA territory directly after other coordinators attacked the EA. If they think the EA will just say "hey! its aid!" their much stupider than they claim.

2.) The EA is not "aggressive" any more than ZAFT is. The EA has actually never started a war against ZAFT, something ZAFT cannot claim in reverse. On top of that, if they were fighting only to defend themselves what was the Destiny Plan? What was Genesis? Why would they actually invade and take the fight to Earth, occupying it?

3.) In the first war, ZAFT committed a major war crime by slaughtering the entirety of the EA forces at Porta Panama: after they had surrendered. Does this sound like defending yourself? To me it sounds like aggression. Also, there is little doubt in my mind ZAFT committed other atrocity's we were simply not shown, same with the EA.

 

The Orb Union is the only terrestrial nation that comes close to ZAFT in terms of technological advancement. Though the nation is small, its technological strength and firm believe in its ideals makes it a faction to be reckoned with. The faction wishes to see the end of the endless war and yearns for peace. Being targeted by ZAFT as the main threat to their offenses on Earth, and by the Earth Alliance as a selfish state that does not use its technological strength to aid the forces of Earth, the nation's neutral stance was dropped and it fights for its survival. The FREE Forces is the military the Orb Union.

Note: Something you might want to add in is the fact that ORB is a Monarchy, and out of the five royal family's, Cagalli is the Queen. There are five (three we know of) Noble Family's: Attha (Neutral: Currently ORB peace involvement) Sahaku (Neutral: Currently Supports ORB non-involvement) Saran (EA-Biased: Currently Supports ORB joining the EA), it can be assumed that the other two are both Neutral and that they for ORB non-involvement (for at least one of the two).

Also, I don't like the name "Free Forces", especially because of the fact it A.) has nothing to do with ORB, B.) seems to imply ORB is more free than it actually is (ORB is, when it comes down to it, Totalitarian, regardless of how good the leaders are).

 

 

PLANT and Earth Alliance Ceasefire Treaty (PEACE) Treaty

 

The treaty signed by the nations involved in the Second Bloody Valentine War in CE 74.

Important terms of the Treaty:

The nations agreed that no country should antagonize war. Should any nation fail to comply, it was to be punished.

All Blue Cosmos members were to be trialled as a war criminal and executed.

Territories of the Oceania Union, seized by the Atlantic Federation during the Second [li]Bloody Valentine War, was to be returned to Oceania Union control.

Territories of the Republic of East Asia, seized by ZAFT during the Second Bloody [li]Valentine War, was to be returned to the Republic of East Asia.

Production of mobile weapons was to be kept to the minimum, sufficient for each faction to defend their territories.

Problems:

1.) No territory's were "seized" by the EA, there was tremendous pressures put on them to join (but the pressures were non-military). Bottom line is their signatory members of the Mutual Protection Treaty, for a treaty to order us to let them go is like ordering PLANT to let Clusters Decemberius and Junius go.

An idea for revision would be giving all "seized" territory's an option to exit the EA peacefully, but that doesn't mean that all, or even most, would accept. Especially because the treaty does not stop us from re-applying those pressures... (embargo's and the like)

2.) The Treaty States the EA must "execute" Blue Cosmos members, this would be considered outrageous on our part as it is like us telling ZAFT to "execute" all members of the ZAFT extremist Factions. Note this problem does not extend to the Trial part.

3.) If you do accept my revision, then ZAFT should logically have to do the equivalent: Try its Extremist Faction as War Criminals. They've committed similar atrocity's, so theres no real reason they should escape. Of course that does mean you have to try a little under half of PLANT... well good luck with that. If this part is not accepted then the EA probably wouldn't accept doing the same to Blue Cosmos.

4.) Just a thought: The EA was tricked and betrayed by Dullindal, killing many and destroying much due to it. The EA would want reparations.

5.) "Was to be punished", by whom? If either one violates it and refuses to stop, it would lead to a war between the two factions... restarting the Bloody Valentine War and making the treaty moot. Seems like a bad solution.

6.) On the site you still have Carpentaria and Gibraltar. Those are two bases not territory's. Whats the difference? A base has no other purpose than to defend something or wage war, so for the EA to allow ZAFT to keep them there would be like a condition of the treaty saying "ZAFT must allow the EA to build bases inside the vicinity of PLANT". Also, remember that all ZAFT territory's/bases on Earth were "suppressed", so it would be logical they would be given back to their original owners (the EA for Gibraltar, and Oceania Union for Carpentaria).

7.) Nothing in here about ORB, and unless something is in there about ORB, then the EA has some very legitimate international grounds for trying to take it over again. Since it signed the Mutual Protection Treaty, regardless of leadership, fighting against the EA is high treason and rebellion. Thus, they are not taking a hostile action against a foreign nation by invading ORB. Also, they can justify it at home due to the fact that, as a monarchy, it is not "democratic" by either PLANT's or the EA's standards.

Also note, ORB would not count as a "seized" nation, due to the fact that ORBs own government (under that purple-haired idiot, forget his name) was the one who asked the to join the EA, free of outside pressure.

8.) Nothing in here about non-EA and non-PLANT nations. Logically, they would probably both try to take over/convince to join as many nations as possible to their cause, in a kind of last-ditch peaceful (with each other at least) attempt to become superior. This could either be reflected in the state of the world, or another article in the treaty. However, this would also mean one (or both) of them would have taken over ORB (unless ORB could have resisted somehow).

9.) More of a suggestion, but early CE 75 seems better to me than late CE 75 (it might also be a good event in the RP to have the 10th anniversary of the PEACE Treaty).

[Erus 0]

Also, just something I'd like to ask, is the EA still making extendeds?

While what Blue Cosmos and LOGOS were doing would certainly be shut down, a small corp of people that are extremely loyal and patriotic to the EA might volunteer to modified, knowing the down sides.

Its not too unrealistic, the Japanese had people that were willing to ram their planes into American ships. Even the Americans sent people on missions so dangerous they sent letters saying the soldier had died as the mission started. Any nation produces a fair amount of people on that level of being a fanatic (though a small percentage, not a nessicarily small number).

[winders 0]

hmm strange I don't see any similar comments in PLANT for this.

That my friend, is called being padantic.

I agree with your 2) there though

 

The EA is not "aggressive" any more than ZAFT is. The EA has actually never started a war against ZAFT, something ZAFT cannot claim in reverse. On top of that, if they were fighting only to defend themselves what was the Destiny Plan? What was Genesis? Why would they actually invade and take the fight to Earth, occupying it?

The brief is their current state, so in otherwords they no longer desire to have a 'destiny plan' for every human being

The EA has actually never started a war against ZAFT, something ZAFT cannot claim in reverse

No, but the EA just instigated it by nuking Junius

 

In the first war, ZAFT committed a major war crime by slaughtering the entirety of the EA forces at Porta Panama: after they had surrendered. Does this sound like defending yourself

In a war, you can't defend yourself by simply holding your forces at home. The objective is to neutralize the enemy, in that case while they did commit a war crime it was instigated by the fact of the thing (forget its name) underground JOSHA.

 

Orb's ruling families all dissapeared apparently; therefore it is probable a new system would have been put in place. If you don't like the name FREE Force we won't tailor it to just one person alone, put up a poll if you dislike the name.

 

The Treaty States the EA must "execute" Blue Cosmos members, this would be considered outrageous on our part as it is like us telling ZAFT to "execute" all members of the ZAFT extremist Factions. Note this problem does not extend to the Trial part.

I don't see it as outrageous, people execute others in SEED for abandoning their duty so executing those behind the war seems like a ideal plan to me.

4.) Just a thought: The EA was tricked and betrayed by Dullindal, killing many and destroying much due to it. The EA would want reparations

A good thought but it's considered a minor detail and therefore wouldn't be included as it would increase reading-length (and boredom)

"Was to be punished", by whom? If either one violates it and refuses to stop, it would lead to a war between the two factions... restarting the Bloody Valentine War and making the treaty moot. Seems like a bad solution.

Well duh, that's how war starts

On the site you still have Carpentaria and Gibraltar. Those are two bases not territory's. Whats the difference?

The difference on this site is that Carpentaria and Gibraltar are considered ZAFT territories, however; the nations they reside in are NOT ZAFT territories, merely ZAFT aligned factions. Beside, we have the ZAFT aligned factions there too.

Also, they can justify it at home due to the fact that, as a monarchy, it is not "democratic" by either PLANT's or the EA's standards.

I don't see a reason why they would liberate a country that's not democratic.

More of a suggestion, but early CE 75 seems better to me than late CE 75 (it might also be a good event in the RP to have the 10th anniversary of the PEACE Treaty).

Did you mean CE 85? Cause we're in that.

Finally before I get to go have breakfast, it is possible that both factions followed the treaty to the letter initially so hence why niether has additional territories.

[Wilhelm 0]

1.) OK, first off, PLANT and ZAFT are not an innocent faction that only defends itself. Their goals extend far beyond "Their right to live". The proof: ZAFT/PLANT started the Second Bloody Valentine War. And no, I'm not talking just about the extremists, they sent their brightest, newest, warship into EA territory directly after other coordinators attacked the EA. If they think the EA will just say "hey! its aid!" their much stupider than they claim.

2.) The EA is not "aggressive" any more than ZAFT is. The EA has actually never started a war against ZAFT, something ZAFT cannot claim in reverse. On top of that, if they were fighting only to defend themselves what was the Destiny Plan? What was Genesis? Why would they actually invade and take the fight to Earth, occupying it?

3.) In the first war, ZAFT committed a major war crime by slaughtering the entirety of the EA forces at Porta Panama: after they had surrendered. Does this sound like defending yourself? To me it sounds like aggression. Also, there is little doubt in my mind ZAFT committed other atrocity's we were simply not shown, same with the EA.

 

1) Zaft did not start the second bloody valentine war, it was instigated by Logos by issuing propaganda to the Earth Alliance, and the other powers on Earth. The declaration of war, was issued by the Earth Alliance. They launched an attack on Plant in retaliation. Instead of just targeting the military, they had a force launch Nuclear missiles at the Plants, where billions of civilians that have had no involvement with Junius Seven incident reside.

2) Aggressive? Never started a war? If you look at the timeline, January 1st CE70

 

( As they meet with representatives of the sponsor nations, PLANT Supreme Council members are targeted by a terror attack, and one council member is slain. Blue Cosmos claims responsibility, but when it becomes clear that the sponsor nations were behind the attack, the PLANTs halt all resource exports. The sponsor nations, which have become dependent on the PLANTs for all such production, are rendered destitute.)

 

February 5th CE70, (The Tragedy of Copernicus. At the urging of the Secretary-General of the United Nations, negotiations take place at the lunar city Copernicus. A terrorist bombing claims the lives of the sponsor nation's representatives, the Secretary-General, and the rest of the United Nations leadership. The PLANT representative, Chairman Clyne, is delayed by a shuttle malfunction and escapes the bombing.)

 

If you look at this Plant has done no wrong to the world. All of it has been instigated by the Earth Alliance Government. You may say its blue cosmos, but they infiltrated their way to the commanding role of that Goverment infecting to the core. The Earth Alliance is now the lapdog of the Blue Cosmos Organization. They declared war on plant only because they stop exporting valuable resources to Earth.

 

What does the alliance do next? They load nuclear missiles on board one of their ships, and head toward Plant. In an attack with the Zaft forces and their superior mobile suit, the alliance is repelled. In a last and desperate attack, they launch their nuclear missiles slaughtering innocent civilians on an agricultural colonly. 243,721 lives were lost, none of these causalities were military personnel.

 

The Destiny Plant was a stupid idea, so can't argue on that.

 

Why did Zaft start invading Earth? Its war, the fastest way to end it is to destroy the opposing factions military and production capability. Thats why the nuclear jammer cancelers were deployed, to eliminate the alliance's strongest weapon, the nuclear missile. Without this weapon, the alliance was outgunned and outmatched.

 

3) Zaft's committing a war crime at Porta Panama? Yes, it was low of them to shoot at surrendering forces. Also, the alliance is the most despicable, they shot a nuclear missile at a civilian colony with no military production what so ever, they used the Cyclopes system on two separate occasions, killing their own, and zaft at the same time. Also, the senseless slaughtering of people in Eurasia for them trying to gain their Independence from the Atlantic Federation.

 

Also, this doesn't really look like a suggestion at all. It looks more like a rant.

[Kaizer 0]

Problems:

1.) No territory's were "seized" by the EA, there was tremendous pressures put on them to join (but the pressures were non-military). Bottom line is their signatory members of the Mutual Protection Treaty, for a treaty to order us to let them go is like ordering PLANT to let Clusters Decemberius and Junius go.

An idea for revision would be giving all "seized" territory's an option to exit the EA peacefully, but that doesn't mean that all, or even most, would accept. Especially because the treaty does not stop us from re-applying those pressures... (embargo's and the like)

2.) The Treaty States the EA must "execute" Blue Cosmos members, this would be considered outrageous on our part as it is like us telling ZAFT to "execute" all members of the ZAFT extremist Factions. Note this problem does not extend to the Trial part.

3.) If you do accept my revision, then ZAFT should logically have to do the equivalent: Try its Extremist Faction as War Criminals. They've committed similar atrocity's, so theres no real reason they should escape. Of course that does mean you have to try a little under half of PLANT... well good luck with that. If this part is not accepted then the EA probably wouldn't accept doing the same to Blue Cosmos.

4.) Just a thought: The EA was tricked and betrayed by Dullindal, killing many and destroying much due to it. The EA would want reparations.

5.) "Was to be punished", by whom? If either one violates it and refuses to stop, it would lead to a war between the two factions... restarting the Bloody Valentine War and making the treaty moot. Seems like a bad solution.

6.) On the site you still have Carpentaria and Gibraltar. Those are two bases not territory's. Whats the difference? A base has no other purpose than to defend something or wage war, so for the EA to allow ZAFT to keep them there would be like a condition of the treaty saying "ZAFT must allow the EA to build bases inside the vicinity of PLANT". Also, remember that all ZAFT territory's/bases on Earth were "suppressed", so it would be logical they would be given back to their original owners (the EA for Gibraltar, and Oceania Union for Carpentaria).

7.) Nothing in here about ORB, and unless something is in there about ORB, then the EA has some very legitimate international grounds for trying to take it over again. Since it signed the Mutual Protection Treaty, regardless of leadership, fighting against the EA is high treason and rebellion. Thus, they are not taking a hostile action against a foreign nation by invading ORB. Also, they can justify it at home due to the fact that, as a monarchy, it is not "democratic" by either PLANT's or the EA's standards.

Also note, ORB would not count as a "seized" nation, due to the fact that ORBs own government (under that purple-haired idiot, forget his name) was the one who asked the to join the EA, free of outside pressure.

8.) Nothing in here about non-EA and non-PLANT nations. Logically, they would probably both try to take over/convince to join as many nations as possible to their cause, in a kind of last-ditch peaceful (with each other at least) attempt to become superior. This could either be reflected in the state of the world, or another article in the treaty. However, this would also mean one (or both) of them would have taken over ORB (unless ORB could have resisted somehow).

9.) More of a suggestion, but early CE 75 seems better to me than late CE 75 (it might also be a good event in the RP to have the 10th anniversary of the PEACE Treaty).

 

1) The idea is that they were pressured into joining, and thus any alignment these territories have to the Earth Alliance wasn't legitimate.  In the end, the PEACE Treaty is merely stating that these territories and any others that were taken (which may not have been openly stated in the show, as they can't tell every story that happens in the world) must be allowed to make their own decisions again.  If they choose to rejoin the EA, then they can go ahead and do so.

 

2) Remember that Blue Cosmos members are a racist group that, along with Logos, committed war crimes against coordinators and naturals alike.  It is only fair that they be put to trial as War Criminals, which DOES give them the chance to prove their innocence and/or redeem themselves (as seen in James Hawke's profile).  Execution of a criminal depends on the severity of their specific crimes, but it IS a possible sentence.

 

3) ZAFT Extremists would be dealt with by the 1st term of the treaty.  Should these extremists try to antagonize a war, they would be punished for it.  And I doubt that much of ZAFT was part of the extremist faction after the end of the second bloody valentine war; so there wouldn't be that many people to put on trial if needed.

 

4) The actions of Dullindal do not reflect the actions of ZAFT and the PLANT, as they too were decieved by him, so would that mean that they need to pay reparations to themselves?  I think not.  Many nations would send aid where they can to all the groups affected by Dullindal, as there are many things that needed to be rebuilt after the war (They better have reuilt Quebec by now, I don't like it when my Canada gets beat up, especially when its that close to home  ).

 

5) The fact is that if one nation starts a war, then all other nations would act against it.  In short, the attacked nation(s) would recieve aid and added protection from other nations, and the attacking nation(s) would recieve no aid or sympathy from the other nations; which can have disastrous effects on their economies.  War is expensive, even more so when you don't have any friends.

 

6) Carpentaria and Gibraltar are built on territories that were taken during the first Bloody Valentine war; thus they are not effected by the PEACE Treaty, which holds true only to the Second Bloody Valentine War.  And as I believe it, the bases weren't built by the EA or Oceanic Unions, so neither of those factions can lay claim to them.  ZAFT owns the bases fair and square, and telling them to give them away would be like someone coming to your house and saying that you have to give them your garage; there's no foundation to the claim.

 

7) Cagalli cut all bonds to the Earth Alliance after regaining power over Orb, so they are not part of the territories seized by the EA or ZAFT, and neither one is allied to it directly.  Also, ORB believes in its monarchy, and ORB monarchs are known to, on the most part, be fair rulers.  ORB doesn't oppose to their monarchs, and their actions are far from hostile towards anyone, so why would the EA need to impose a diplomactic ruler there; especially as there are no terms in the treaty that say that all nations must be diplomatic.  Freedom of speech and expression are Human Rights after all, so we're allowed to have monarchs if we want them, so long as they don't hurt anyone.

 

The neutral nations would know that the EA & ZAFT have no power over them, as applying pressure to join could be seen as trying to take them over, which in turn would be seen as an act of agression.  This conflicts with the 1st term of the treaty, where no nation is allowed to act agressively to other nations.  Neutral nations can remain neutral, its only during times of war that this is seen as a bad thing.

 

9) Late CE85 will make it closer to the RL time of year, so we don't have to keep an active track of the month of the year, and can use the current month as a guide.  We did the same with SEED RPG, and it never seemed to cause problems, you wanna celebrate Christmas, don't you?

 

Also, Extendeds are allowed, but you would have to explain how they came to be.  The process of creating an extended is inhumane, and is hard to justify, especially during a time where none of the nations are at war with each other.  Perhaps there are a few extendeds who survived and went into hiding, or perhaps there are a few fanatics who are still trying to perfect the 'extended' process; thats up for your profile to justify.

[Rad 0]

Note: Something you might want to add in is the fact that ORB is a Monarchy, and out of the five royal family's, Cagalli is the Queen. There are five (three we know of) Noble Family's: Attha (Neutral: Currently ORB peace involvement) Sahaku (Neutral: Currently Supports ORB non-involvement) Saran (EA-Biased: Currently Supports ORB joining the EA), it can be assumed that the other two are both Neutral and that they for ORB non-involvement (for at least one of the two).

Also, I don't like the name "Free Forces", especially because of the fact it A.) has nothing to do with ORB, B.) seems to imply ORB is more free than it actually is (ORB is, when it comes down to it, Totalitarian, regardless of how good the leaders are).

 

Have you clicked on the Orb and FREE Forces links?

 

With all due respect, your objections seem to stem from knowing, and insisting on, too much. The first thing you must be willing to do here is to "unlearn all you have learned". Canon events happened, but we set ourselves at 10 years later precisely to avoid having to explain some of the issues you have raised. In short: it's been long enough that even older characters can no longer remember the wars and their aftermaths with complete clarity.

 

Also, would you care to introduce yourself at the Introduction section?

[Valiant 96]

I would agree that this is simply a rant, at least most part of it is.

 

You are using your own judgement, clouded by your apparent allegiance to EA, to say that we are making the Alliance look bad. But maybe you should have thought about why such a scenario is set in the storyline.

 

Carpentaria and Gibraltar are considered ZAFT territories because they are bases built by ZAFT with the blessings of the ZAFT-aligned nations who wanted greater security that came with a ZAFT garrison during the war. There aren't any EA-aligned PLANTs so your claim that having ZAFT territories on Earth is equivalent to having EA bases on the PLANTs doesn't hold.

 

The other replies have more than answered you questions so I'll leave it as that.

[kct 0]

Moral of this thread: there is no clear line between the good and the bad, at least between factions.

[Erus 0]

January 1st CE 70: War is Declared by the EA in response to a terrorist attack on a Peace Conferance on the city of Copernicus. The investigations blamed PLANT for the incident*.

Its called Casus Belli, it started US involvement in both World Wars as an example, I doubt many people argue with those decisions nowdays (maybe WWI).

Also, I don't think one can honestly argue (from the EA's point of view, meaning they didn't know it was extremists as opposed to PLANT), that there wasn't Casus Belli for the second war either.

*Since it happened on Copernicus, its more than likely the investigations were undertaken by Copernicus. Which, last I checked, is neutral. (However I have no proof either way, beyond the fact Copernicus is not a part of the EA, and a seperate entity)

As for Junius 7, if you want to argue that then how about the N-Jammers. Even if they don't kill people, they did massive damage to almost all civilian centers by cutting off power and are still a Nuclear Weapon per-se.

I'd be curious to see how many people died because of a lack of power to hospitals and so on...

 

As for me saying your making the Alliance look bad, this line seems to make it look pretty bad:

The faction believes in exterminating Coordinators to create a true and blue world where the "superior" beings do not exist.

Its still there, and I seem to be the only one objecting to it.

The Earth Alliance has an anti-Coordinator stance. The Alliance is led by the Secretary-General. However, the Secretary-General does not have much powers and lacks control over the OMNI Enforcer, the military of the Alliance.

Where are you getting proof of this? The Anti-Coordinator stance is Blue Cosmos. The slaughters of the first war occured on both sides. The last time I checked it took a full blown conspiracy against the EA to get even half of the EA to stop listening to the guy.

 

PLANT has done no wrong? I never said the EA was some great innocent nation or that it was perfect, which people seem to be accusing me of. The reason I don't mention it is because you more than say that the EA has its problems, but not the same with PLANT. But saying some of the things the descriptions say are simply not true.

Including smaller factions within the Faction:

PLANTs Wrongs: Porta Panama and other Natural Slaughters, Genesis and Neo-Genesis, N-Jammers, Destiny Plan, Racism*

EA's Wrongs: Nuclear Attacks (including Junius), Blue Cosmos, LOGOS and its programs, Racism*, Slaughters (possibly, we were not shown any)

*To be noted that a little over Half of PLANT and probably a similar number for the EA (at least in both cases) are moderate

 

I'm honestly fine if it says all must be tried, assuming ZAFT does the equivilent, but it specifically says "must be tried and executed". This would give them no chance to prove their innocence.

Also, it seems kind of unequal if the PLANT extremists only have to not antagonize us, while our extremists have to get killed.

The PLANT extremists did just as much as BC and LOGOS did. Also both against Coordinators and naturals.

As for CE 75, I meant the signing date.

 

"With the Blessings of PLANT Aligned Nations", you may be able to argue that for Carpentaria, but the Eurasian Federation controlled at least half of what Gibralter is now prior to the war. If you go by current politics (irl) then it was the Atlantic Federation, and it controlled all of it.

So, is the Eurasian Federation a 'PLANT Aligned Nation'?

As for setting it into the Story Line, so the EA is going to end up being a 'bad-guy' faction, or at least the majority of it? Thats the only way setting it into the storyline could help from what I see. That would mean theres a "good guy" and a "bad guy" faction, which I believe makes a shallow story....

If your talking about SEED and Destiny's storyline, then not only does that violate "unlearn all you have learned", but its incorrect about the storyline. If you want to include the storyline, then you must put in how racist PLANT/ZAFT is (a bit under half). On top of that, the storyline says the EA is moderate and elements like BC and Logos make up its extreme half, which were dealt with already.

I also ask you don't insult me, if I insulted you I apologize, it was not intentional.

 

As for the "unlearn all you have learned" thing, I'd be willing to do that but then this site is saying the EA is racist and PLANT is not. Especially because, while I didn't make this site, it seems to be an end to that entire racist age (or at least a step in that direction).

 

I agree fully with kct.

[F.A.I.T.H 0]

January 1st CE 70: War is Declared by the EA in response to a terrorist attack on a Peace Conferance on the city of Copernicus. The investigations blamed PLANT for the incident*.

 

It's a long shot, but declaring war on suspicion? Like you, I have little proof to show for for this little 'whodunnit', but it certainly did mean that there was already tension between them enough for the EA to launch a war. They were spoiling for a fight, and probably as much as PLANT would be, once given an excuse to do so.

 

As for Junius 7, if you want to argue that then how about the N-Jammers. Even if they don't kill people, they did massive damage to almost all civilian centers by cutting off power and are still a Nuclear Weapon per-se.

I'd be curious to see how many people died because of a lack of power to hospitals and so on...

 

It's a worthy thought, which unfortunately was never shown in the anime itself.

 

 

 

As for setting it into the Story Line, so the EA is going to end up being a 'bad-guy' faction, or at least the majority of it? Thats the only way setting it into the storyline could help from what I see. That would mean theres a "good guy" and a "bad guy" faction, which I believe makes a shallow story....

 

You don't have to take it that way. While I understand your unhappiness about how EA is being portraited and phrased, it certainly doesn't have to turn out into a 'good guy' vs 'bad guy' story. What were we shown in the series at the start? Who turned out to be that 'evil faction' at the very end? Couple this with kct's moral, and you should get your answer.

 

 

Just a few thoughts. Your posts are thought-provoking, so I thought I should add in a few opinions.

 

As for suggestions...I was wondering about whether it's possible to show to some of the users who the faction leaders are more clearly and perhaps even include a proper timeline of the events that spanned the C.E universe for role players to make their character more real in that sense. It doesn't have to pertain to canon characters, just as long as the timeline's shown with regard to the significant events that happened.

[Rad 0]

I admit that you bring up good points, but if you will be unable to fully enjoy yourself without extensive modifications of the entire background of the role-play, as it seems to me, then perhaps Advent Destiny is simply not the site for you.

[Valiant 96]

Like Rad said, we made the background to set the scenario for our RP. This is all done for storyline purpose.

 

FAITH, I will look into the timeline and the faction leader listing. However, you can refer to Wikipedia for now for the timeline of what happened.

[Rusty 0]

I'm kind of perplexed by that line in the faction description myself. If the Blue Cosmos members were tried and executed then why is the Earth Alliance still trying to exterminate the Coordinators for a blue world? Is that line really meant to describe a pre-PEACE treaty Alliance or are you implying that the treaty really did nothing to change their outlook? Does that mean that there really are still Blue Cosmos members in control of the Earth Alliance and its military?

 

The line in question:

 

The Earth Alliance is have less advanced technology compared to the PLANT and Orb Union but their numerical superiority offsets the disadvantage. With territories extending to most of the Earth, the faction is able to call upon a large army to fight for it. The faction believes in exterminating Coordinators to create a true and blue world where the "superior" beings do not exist. The OMNI Enforcer is the military of the Alliance.

[Valiant 96]

The Blue Cosmos might have been executed but that doesn't mean that anti-coordinator sentiments aren't boiling within the Naturals.

[Rad 0]

This could be best explained by the drop of Junius 7 into the Earth's atmosphere. After that infamous catastrophe, a 'Blue Cosmos'-like influence wouldn't even be necessary for Naturals to dislike Coordinators.

 

Note that the Faction Leader of the Earth Alliance is herself a Coordinator (Lune Zoldark), so in reality, the EA dislikes only ZAFT, the military arm of the PLANTs. However, most Naturals (i.e. civilians) do not distinguish between a ZAFT soldier and any other Coordinator, leading to the quoted 'anti-Coordinator sentiment'. The Earth Alliance, being the Naturals' military arm, would be bound to support this sentiment.

[Rusty 0]

I think I understand what you're getting at.

 

Still the line seems to depict the Earth Alliance as being pretty extreme. There is a pretty wide gap between dislike and extermination. With a Coordinator leading their military forces, Blue Cosmos members being executed left and right, and the PEACE treaty standing strong shouldn't they have mellowed out a bit?

[kct 0]

And even if Junius 7 happened, not everyone adopt an extreme attitude towards Coordinators. Come on, it's already 10 years.

 

It's a matter of individual opinions, so in this case, labelling the whole of the Earth Alliance as that does kind of not make sense at all.

Edited October 29, 2006 by Guest

[Rad 0]

You're both right, but I would like to reiterate that even if the Earth Alliance has indeed 'mellowed out', my point was that the civilians to whom the EA answers to, may generally be assumed to be anti-Coordinator of their own volition, due to the drop of Junius 7.

 

We must also consider also the possibility that a significant number of the now 25+ year-old EA soldiers/officers who enlisted back in 73-74, did so precisely because of the Junius 7 catastrophe. (Food for thought: how many Chinese would enlist after the destruction of Beijing?)

[F.A.I.T.H 0]

Just a short deviation from the currently hot topic of the discussion about description of the RP: Is it possible to set up a Non-RP thread for each of the factions, so as to discuss about various things like who wants to go which part (E.g. RPer A wants to RP in Januarius, hopes for someone to do so with him and states as such) and plans for gradual interaction between the characters as well as setting up of side stories?

 

Just a thought. Thank you.

[Valiant 96]

Thanks for bringing this up! This is the main purpose of the RP discussion board. 

[evo_Sieg 0]

Hmm, how about putting a person's faction as part of the content of his/her avatar box on the left side of the post? I may have seen a post like this before, I'm just not sure but if there is already a post as such, I would like to raise the suggestion again.

 

thanks

[winders 0]

Like have a little picture saying "Earth Alliance" or "ZAFT"?

 

Similar to what the admins have?

 

Or just in text?

 

We had something like that on the old forums

[evo_Sieg 0]

Perhaps a good suggestion is to put it in between the name and the "Full Member (12.5%)" status.

 

There really won't be that need for a picture, though it would also be nice to have. Prob is, it would be a graphic, therefore it would add to the download time. By how much, I really don't know, hehe...

[Rad 0]

Well, the problem with that suggestion would the eventuality of multiple characters.

 

Having an indicator for now, when each member is limited only to a single character, would be fine. However, in the future, having a faction indicator might lead to confusion when a member roleplays with multiple characters from different factions.

[winders 0]

A small gif barely adds a second to download time