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carpenoctum

Gundam Spacecraft

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Maybe its just me but theres something thats always bothered mt about the various gundam universes. That the spacecraft involved.  Other than canon ones shps are about as expendable as toothbrush and as flimsy as pop cans.

 

With all the advancements in technology show in mobile suit use I'd think that they could produce some damnably powerful and much better designed vessels than those shown.  The ones they do use seem more and more unoriginal. Since ships have a much longer lived power supply in the CE universe(laser-induced fusion right?) you'd think they could mount some of the shielding tech mounted on suits and make them more survivable.

 

Also think of weapon systems.  Imagine a ship equipped with multiple DRAGOON systems each controlled by an independent operator. Ones like on the Destroy would be particularly useful as they have shielding capacity as well.  This would make for a powerful spherical defense against attacking mobile suits.

 

A ship equipped with the positronic shields some of the newer suits have would make them more survivable. While thier at it why not give ships PS armor as well?  They have the power plants to power it so why not?

 

I just want to know what other think.

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Well, on one hand, the mobile suits with PS armour were basically a recent technological leap forward. So is partly the technology haven't filtered down yet. Also, it could be that manufacturing the PS armour and the like is a very difficult and expensive process to begin with.

 

On another hand, the gundam shows is focused on the mobile suits. The producers want to show to the viewers how cool gundams are, and getting blasted out of the sky by a normal capital ship cannons is not considered cool. Even a gundam would have a lot of difficult bringing down a capital ship if said ship is build at the same technological level as the gundam.

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Y'know, i've never thought of this before. In my mind, energy shielding on ships was only relegated to the Western Sci-Fi (Star Wars, Homeworld, etc.), while ships without shielding was only in the Gundam universe. I still don't know why the Gundam ships don't have shielding (in any of the stories, UC, CE AC etc) but then, if you think about it, they're not actually that weak. Example. In UC, it takes Zaku aces to take out cap ships, and even then, taking out one is still a mean feat (looks at Johnny Ridden and Char.)

CE really plays up the whole godmod concept with the Gundams. Not to prove you wrong carpenoctum, but you only ever see a cap ship get owned in CE by a gundam (or something equally powerful ) So, working on what Blake said, the producers are throwing realism (ie, a cap ship being a challenge to a gundam) out the window for coolness. But (I'm just throwing this in ) maybe the ships themselves actually are really weak, as we know that some (if not most) ships use their own squads of MS to combat other MS, and the ships are used to sink each other (then again, thats what MS is for...) I know i'm kinda contradicting myself, i'm just putting out possiblities *shrug*

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I think its not just about godmod to blame about ships being too cheap to handle in CE. I think the producers were also thinking about what is the true Naval power of today. Being that, todays NAVYs much rely now on seaborne aircrafts rather than a ship to ship battles. So if you can see the similarities, as the aircrafts now are like the MSs of CE.

 

If you know very much of your history lessons during WWII in the pacific, it was japan themselves had seen through and were conceited that seaborne aircrafts will be the greatest reliance throughout the war and they have proven that theory through Pearl Harbor. Course, the Americans also learned from it and was able to the same using aircrafts in the NAVY as the main attack force. Up until now, seaborne crafts are still the main Naval power of all navys. So, you could probably say they just looking through the current norms.

 

But of course, who's stupid enough not to notice this even after 15 yrs after the events of GSD. By now, ships would now have better sensors for their CIWSs. Soon, shieldings for ships will b developed for much longer survival chance. But remember also, a ship is a heavy armored weapons platform. It was never designed to face on small but powerful MW. They would still rely on their own MW squadrons for defense. Unless of course it is designated as an escort or corvette.

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definitely all good points and can't really say i disagree with anything. While i know that the mecha are the primary stars so to speak of the various gundam universe i've just always felt they were to much of an afterthought.

 

For instance the archangel proved to be a powerful and resilient ship why not mass produce it instead of the other that they lost by the score unless their crazily expensive.  Also other ship designs have always bothered me somewhat. Like how they have the bridge placed in a very easily damaged location.  Since their going to be fighting in an environment where combat will probably fought over large distances, possibly large enough were the unaided eye would be useless anyway.

 

They always talk of senors and such picking up enemy suits.  They should embed the bridge deep within the hull.  The archangel and Minerva being prime examples its right smack in front.

Maybe im just to corrupted by to many sci-fi novels but it seems silly to have the ship have enormous amounts of armor around the ships other components then place the bridge containing all the ships officers in an unprotected location.

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Modern day battleships, with the exception of the aircraft carrier, are usually design with the bridge embedded deep within the hull. I think the bridge design in gundam seed is a holdover from previous sci-fi shows like star trek and star wars where they have the bridge overlooking the ship.

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Well, remember that the Minerva could embed its bridge when it wanted to, so its not like they didn't think of that .  Also, remember that in the end, the Gundam series is an anime, and so you have to remember that they want the ships to look visually appealing rather than overly authentic and strategically sound  .

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Concerning bridges, a ship has practically two bridges, except for carriers which has 3. The Ship Control (Bridge), The CIC (Combat Information Center) and for the carrier, Flight Control. Those embedded bridges on ships of today are CIC. Even a carrier has a CIC, hell all modern ship has. The Ship controls are necessary to be outside the hull offer viewing purposes. Sometimes, sensors not always needed for ship control and a naked eye is needed. Unless of course you a submarine which only rely on sonar. But there is also a danger of using too much and not much sensors. Too much, and you'll be easly seen by the enemy  on radar. Not much, and you'll be caught off guard.

 

The reason why bridges are situated on what you may call vulnerable location is that it has also some tactical needs. The captain has to be able to see in-depth of the situation and be able to asses and correlate proper tactics or maneuvers for the ship in order to survive. CICs are embedded as they are as much vital as a ship control and also as an aide for captains as he cant see everything in the battle or what is happening happening around him. 

 

But Unlike in Gundam Universe, the CIC is either also in the bridge or is under it. Even the Flight control is also in the Bridge. This is a flaw I've seen in the Gundam Universe. I cant imagine, how much info are being relayed to them in just one room. To much information barrage will lead to confusion. Also, once the bridge is destroyed, the ship is totally destroyed in itself, when actually a ship is still controllable even after one or two of this "bridges" are destroyed. So you might say, that the ship design should not only concern on offensive and defensive structure but also resilience and survivability.

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That makes sense for a wet-navy ship. but wouldn't a warship in space be more like the sub.  You wouldn't need a window.  You'd be better off using cameras and such same as the mobile suits themselves.  While on that note, the control methods for the ships are not shown very either.  The mobile suits kinda make sense but they never show any kind of attitude thrusters on ships they just move while trust comes out the back.  The archangel and minerva at least have control surfaces to explain some atmospheric movement.

 

If you watch some other space based anime such as Outlaw star of Banner of the stars they plainly show or explain how the various craft work.

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When you think about these series...

 

It's never about the ships, It's about the suits.

 

I mean, if it was simple battleships and etc it'd turn into Star Wars, etc.

 

Along with funding. Phase shift armor was recently discovered, and the wars sort of start up funding and kill it at the same time considering the losses each place has.

 

Dragoons are also a ZAFT discovery, having a newtype/whatever connection with the user. But with the Chaos recently having been made. It could be assumed that a human pilot(Even a Drugged up One) could control at least 2 Dragoons as shown with the Chaos. Akatsuki well, I'm not sure since Cagalli never used it and Mu's newtype or something.

 

As for Ships...they aren't known for their life-spans.

 

Mobile suits are smaller and can destroy ships much more easier. If a new ship is made then it'd be a easier target, no matter the power and equipment.

 

And a Ship is Huge, It'd need a Nuclear Reactor just to survive and recharge the weapons compared to a little suit. Along with one giant ship being made, you can simply make 2 high graded suits.

 

Think of it simply...

 

Series=Mechs not Ships(Even Archangels/White Ship) Need some 'Gundam' to survive.

 

Large Giant Ship VS 2-3 High Graded Suits. It's a simple matter of funding and how much of a target you're gonna be compared to the rest. Funding itself also matters, I'd rather take the high graded suits.

 

One Life VS Ship Lives. If that ship blows, you lose at least a hundred or 50. You'd lose a good pilot but...they're born all the time and can be trained.

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